Curse

Kawil · Apr 13, 2009, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Reactive V. Proactive....whatever. I say play what you like and know. I've never run [Arcane Echo] with [SS]. However, I do run [SS] with [Mark of Pain] and [Barbs]. [Parasitic Bond] is a nice cover with added HP and with [Enfeebling Blood], [Necrosis] will keep the damage coming all night long. It's a fun build and I like to run it. Could I go [Assassin's Promise]? Sure, I just choose not to. If that makes me inferior that's fine. I mean it's PvE, so why not let them kill themselves? Oh wait...that's right...it's not as efficient...LOL.

Play with different skills, run what ya like and have fun with it.

papaschtroumpf · Apr 13, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

nobody mentioned [Price of failure], it's not AoE like [reckless haste] but it has a multiplicative effect, so now a physical foe misses 66% of the time.

Xenomortis · Apr 13, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

It's certainly viable, but I wouldn't really bother with it. It costs 15 energy (a lot for a single target hex), it has a 2 second cast time and a 20 second recharge. But, it does have a nice protection effect.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 14, 2009, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

It's certainly viable, but I wouldn't really bother with it. It costs 15 energy (a lot for a single target hex), it has a 2 second cast time and a 20 second recharge. But, it does have a nice protection effect.

Agreed. For a single target cover Hex, take [Parasitic Bond]. For better results, take [Reckless Haste] as an AoE cover Hex, just cast Arcane Echo > SS > AE'd SS > Reckless so you cover both copies of SS.

I don't really see a problem with blocking in this build, tbh. If the OP were running AP MoP+Barbs, yes, Rigor Mortis would be viable in a block-heavy area, with SS, since it's reactive, and is based on the enemy's actions instead of your team's physical damage output, Rigor isn't really needed.

I occasionally run [Defile Defenses] in block-heavy areas (lots of Sins in Factions) to have a relatively quickly recharging spike for the blocking buggers.

If you think the enemies are going to stay near a corpse, [Signet of Sorrow] is also a good skill to bring alongside of [Necrosis]. SoS instant recharge spam when your target is adjacent to a corpse? Yes, please.

AtomicMew · Apr 26, 2009, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Arcane echo isn't a bad skill, but it really just depends on what your heroes are running. If you're running physicals or a MM, then you might want to drop it because casting other skills like barbs or MoP will do just as much damage, anyway.

You also definitely want to take 3 PvE skills since they are generally better. I always take necrosis (damage) and YMLAD (interrupt, kiting) and usually technobabble.

Also, just ignore the "reactive hexing" hate. Those people are just too stuck in their way of thinking. There are plenty of cases where SS > AP, especially against multiple healers, where SS can provide more pressure. You already know how mobs are going to act, it's just stubborn not to take advantage of that.

MagmaRed · Apr 26, 2009, 06:53 AM // 06:53

[arcane echo]+[spiteful spirit] is good for the build base. Ignore the people telling you it is bad, because this was a HUGE build for a LONG time. It still works, they just like other things better, which is fine. However, I'd suggest dropping [desecrate enchantments] and [defile enchantments]. THe casting time and recharge time on them is not with the skill slots. [reckless haste] is an amazingly effective skill even without SS, but combined with SS it is godly.

Look into [barbs], [necrosis], [mark of pain], [rip enchantment], and [enfeebling blood] to fill out the rest. [signet of lost souls] is a good option for energy management, but isn't really needed if stuff is dying fast as it should be. If you need/want more team support, toss in [blood ritual] and/or [well of blood]. The well would only work if you do not have an MM using the corpses. Awaken isn't bad, but to make it worth using you need a decent amount of attributes in Blood to make it last long enough. Unless taking significant skills from Blood, don't bother with it. THe +2 to Curses is nice, but not needed.

Xenomortis · Apr 26, 2009, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

There are plenty of cases where SS > AP, especially against multiple healers, where SS can provide more pressure. You already know how mobs are going to act, it's just stubborn not to take advantage of that.

SS is only a better choice in very precise team builds where AP wouldn't really work out.
In a general PvE situation, SS is inferior on all accounts.

Yes the mobs will attack and cast through it, but that means they're attacking you, which is bad.
It also means, that the damage rate is fixed and that rate is much less than what you could achieve otherwise.

You don't want pressure; you want the mob to die, right now. If you're too imcompetent to deal with multiple healers, well...

AtomicMew · Apr 26, 2009, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

SS is only a better choice in very precise team builds where AP wouldn't really work out.
In a general PvE situation, SS is inferior on all accounts.

I play AP and SS all the time. AP requires you to watch out for hex removal. Even with cover hex, deep hex removal is pretty common in some places.

Quote:

Yes the mobs will attack and cast through it, but that means they're attacking you, which is bad.
It also means, that the damage rate is fixed and that rate is much less than what you could achieve otherwise.

It doesn't matter if they're attacking you because you cannot stop mobs from attacking anyway, unless you do something stupid like pacifism.
MoP nuking is conditional on having a minion army, which depending on area, might not be suitable.

Quote:

You don't want pressure; you want the mob to die, right now. If you're too imcompetent to deal with multiple healers, well...

You're just theorycraft, and this quote seals it. Please take an AP caller with H/H through vloxen HM, duncan HM or even just Frost Gate HM so I can laugh when you realize your elite is useless.

Xenomortis · Apr 26, 2009, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

I play AP and SS all the time. AP requires you to watch out for hex removal. Even with cover hex, deep hex removal is pretty common in some places.

Heavy hex removal is an issue for SS too, it's just not as irritating when SS is stripped. If you time the AP cast well, hex removal is very rarely an issue. AP is harder to run, yes, but the rewards are greater.

AtomicMew · Apr 26, 2009, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Heavy hex removal is an issue for SS too, it's just not as irritating when SS is stripped. If you time the AP cast well, hex removal is very rarely an issue.

10s vs 45s recharge.

Quote:

AP is harder to run, yes, but the rewards are greater.

The rewards are greater only if you can get it to stick all the way to death and consistently. That's non-trivial against multiple healers and tougher mobs, no matter how much you enjoy having the "lol AP pwns everyone else is incompetent" attitude.

The fact is, they both have their pros and cons and sometimes SS is better than AP. There's just no getting around it.

Boogz · Apr 26, 2009, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I'm not an expert 'bout necros, but why Assasin's Promise over SS?

Moloch Vein · Apr 27, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Why Reactive Hexing Sucks

Boogz · Apr 27, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

thanks, now I have a reason to lvl my necro

Kale Ironfist · Apr 27, 2009, 10:24 AM // 10:24

SS does not provide enough pressure. If you're going to use an elite to pressure down healers, you'd take either Lingering Curse or Soul Bind, because they're going to do it better than SS.

SS is the suboptimal, but more general skill. It's never going to be the best in any one situation.

cataphract · Apr 27, 2009, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

SS is the suboptimal, but more general skill. It's never going to be the best in any one situation.

Except when you've covered the melee/ranger mobs with 3 (even 5) copies of SS and thrown Reckless on them while the rest of the team is punishing their monks. Which is, well - let's be frank, all of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Why Reactive Hexing Sucks

Bad post is bad no matter how often one links to it.

Calista Blackblood · Apr 27, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quit swinging your handbags at each other and discuss the bar ok?

Zen1331 · Apr 27, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

From my experience SS is pretty good. If you know your role as a damage support and not rush out in the front you should do fine. As a necro I play mid-line and follow the tanks but I don't aggro.

When the tanks (wars or dervs) rush in, I normally will throw enfeebling blood into the mob that someone has called then SS. If there is a barrager, I'll throw MoP on their target. From there I just spam necrosis to help w/ the killing but i know I'm no major dmg dealer.

I love AP, but I normally play that w/ my H/H discorders. But I have found even with a cover hex then AP it'll sometimes get stripped. So for my build I don't take the standard MoP AP vanguard spiker with the final "Finish Him" shout. I instead replace it w/ Necrosis so I can spam that if my AP gets stripped and I'm waiting for it to reload. My 2 cents.

For a PUG, not too many ppl complain if you bring a nice SS bar, which I think the OP's is ok. I wouldn't arcane echo it though. If you have NF and a decent sunspear rank (r9 at least) you can bring CoP as long as you bring a mes cover hex like Fragility which is light and spammable.

Ratson Itamar · Apr 27, 2009, 10:55 PM // 22:55

@cataphract
Do you really have 3-5 copies of SS in your group? Because if you do, you suck. I've put it so bluntly because I will just waste my time explaining why if you actually do have so many copies of it. Using Arcane Echo is just as bad, and added 20 seconds of recharge, more energy, it takes more time until you finally get to cast SS, you're open to get stripped of it, limits your secondary...I can keep going.

@traversc
The whole recharge clause is a mistake, the only purpose of AP is to cut down the recharge. If you can't get an hex to stick for about 3 to 5 seconds then you're bad beyond repair and you should stop reading this post. With the right build (including those of your teammates) soul reaping's is easily reached, I notice that all the time (yes, also in HM). I added that last sentence to prove to anyone that I do check the time that it takes me to kill a target.

@OP
What is missing from your build is utility, there's absolutely none of it. A cover hex is nice, enchantments removers, or anything that you see fit to counter the specific zone or mission. It will make you more useful in more situations than being a damage dealer that relies on his foes (enchantments for Desecrate/Defile Enchantments and attacking for SS). I would also take out the healing skills, it's the job of the backline.

I tried not give you specific skills because others have done that already and not to limit you from picking skills that I didn't suggest.

@Future flamers
3...2...1...Go!

Improvavel · Apr 27, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

The difference between a SS build and a AP-MoP build is that SS allows you to win with a bad team, while a AP-MoP kills so fast that you don't have time to see if your team is bad or not.

AtomicMew · Apr 28, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

@cataphract
Do you really have 3-5 copies of SS in your group? Because if you do, you suck.

You don't need "3-5 copies of SS in your group" to get 3-5 copies of SS on targets. You only need Arcane Echo, which is an option, maybe a bit outdated, but still very strong.

Quote:

@traversc
The whole recharge clause is a mistake, the only purpose of AP is to cut down the recharge. If you can't get an hex to stick for about 3 to 5 seconds then you're bad beyond repair and you should stop reading this post.

Against 3-4 hex removers (healers and the sporadic mesmer), it is nigh impossible to get a hex to consistently stick for "3-5 seconds" even with a fish-hex. Against multiple healers, getting 3-5 seconds of AP in isn't even a guarantee that it will stick til death. Even if you wait until your target is around half health, your target could be healed to nearly full by the time AP even finishes casting. That is just how it is against multiple healers.

I think... the gap in logic you have comes you not realizing that most of HM? Is not hard. For some perspective, I've taken AP through nearly 100% of my L. VQ title and L. Eotn title, so I do realize how powerful AP is, believe it or not.

But there ARE some areas in the game where taking AP is just not productive. I've already named a few: Vloxen, Duncan, frost gate, Sacnoth valley, etc. For those saying that SS sucks, I challenge you, take an AP caller H/H through vloxen HM (which is definitely not even the hardest area) and see how far you get. You are just going to have to admit that AP is not the answer for that area. You won't even be able to complete it unless you are lame and Ebon Sniper your way through in 5 hours.

Thread summary:
-AP may be a better option in many, if not most cases.
-SS is ALWAYS a solid option and will benefit the team in a few areas where AP will be sub-par.

PS: I really don't see how anyone can argue with those two statements above, unless they are inexperienced. I get the feeling that anyone that thinks AP is the end-all-be-all... is just a casual player who decided one day to turn on HM, VQ Marga Coast and think "wow HM is EZ I'm 1337." GW can be much more challenging than that... or else why do 90% of pugs fail UWSC

But that's another story.